ROUGHLY EDITED COPY CUENet AUDIO TRANSCRIPTION DOGMATICS 2 LESSON 74 Captioning Provided By: Caption First, Inc. 10 E. 22nd Street Suite 304 Lombard, IL 60148 800-825-5234 *** This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. *** >> May I ask a question which has been asked of me? It seems related to this discussion about atonement. Did Christ die for everyone or just for those who are saved? >> DR. DAVID MAXWELL: Well, that's a question, Josh, that has been an issue between Lutherans and the Reformed for quite some time. Because the classic Calvinist position is that of limited atonement. That is to say that Christ did not, in fact, die for everyone. But that he only died for those who would eventually be saved. Now, I can't speak for Calvinism as to what exactly the motivations for taking that position might be. Although I assume one concern would be with Calvinism's emphasis on the sovereignty of God that they want to make sure that whatever God wants, God gets. So that if God died for everyone, that would imply that he wants everyone to be saved. And therefore, they should be saved. Because the sovereignty of God is a top item in Reformed theology. And so now, not all Reformed today necessarily follow limited atonement. But that has historically been a position among the Reformed. And it's a position which the Lutheran Church has never agreed with. I Timothy 2 tells us that God wants everyone to be saved. And there's other scripture passages, as well. For instance, in II Corinthians Chapter 5, Paul tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself. Reconciling the world. So the Lutheran church has always held that the atonement that Christ accomplished on the cross was for everyone. That no one is excluded. Perhaps the easiest passage to remember in this regard is John 3:16. "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son." He is not only giving his Son for some. He's giving his Son for everyone. For the world. So we have always maintained that grace is for everyone. Now, beyond just the simple question of, you know, is atonement limited or not, there are some implications of that question that I think are very important. And one -- and they have mainly to do with the means of grace. Because if you think about it, how does a Lutheran know what God thinks about them? Well, we know it because he tells us what he thinks about us in word and sacrament. That he bestows forgiveness of sins on us and, therefore, we know that he regards us with favor. That is he gives us grace. Now, if you take the position that grace is not universal, that God doesn't, in fact, intend to save everyone, that there are some people that he intentionally excludes from salvation, then there's at least a question I think as to how do you know which camp you're in? And when God gives -- offers you grace in word and sacraments, is that a serious offer of grace or maybe you're one of the people that Christ didn't die for. And in that case, the means of grace aren't going to work. They are not going to be a serious and efficacious offer of grace. And historically the Reformed tradition has tended to shy away from saying that the means of grace actually convey the forgiveness of sins in the straightforward way at least that Lutheran theology wants to say that. And we can say it partially because we do believe that God intends seriously, that he wants to save everyone. And so when he gives that salvation through the means of grace, there's no reason for us to wonder, you know, whether that's serious or not. It is. *** This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. ***