ROUGHLY EDITED COPY CUE NET CONFESSIONS CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY EDUCATION NETWORK CONFESSION 1 QUESTION 55 Captioning Provided By: Caption First, Inc. 3238 Rose Street Franklin Park, IL 60131 800-825-5234 *** This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. *** >> I remember reading in the Apology about the veneration of saints. Is there a proper way to honor the saints or our departed loved ones in heaven or to draw upon their lives for encouragement? >>DR. CHARLES P. ARAND: Article 21 on the invocation of saints is a particularly interesting one. For example, Article 21, in fact, occurs in part of Augsburg Confession Apology that is Sunday the session dealing with articles of doctrine. One might initially think that the issue of invocation of saints would be an item to be covered under a section dealing with practices or abuses I'm not sure exactly what that might mean I suppose we could surmise that Lutherans, in fact, have a doctrine about saints. Well, be that as it may, a far greater importance is the substance of the article as well as its value for us today. I think Article 21 can provide a great deal of assistance for how we go about teaching and dealing with the Bible stories, whether we deal with them in Sunday school, vacation Bible school, or even adult Bible classes. Because immediately right off -- right at the outset, Melanchthon highlights through reasons why we can venerate or honor the saints might be a better way of expressing it and how to do so. The first thing he emphasizes is that we ought to give thanksgiving for them, namely for their example -- for them being examples of God's mercy. In other words, when we see God being merciful to his people, res cueing them, for giving them, we can give thanks that we have an example such as they where God has demonstrated his faithfulness and goodness that we might take comfort from that, as well. The second reason for honoring the saints according to Melanchthon, is for the strengthening of our own faith. In other words, the Bible does not overlook or white wash the blemishes and the sins and the stains of its saints. It portrays them in all of their sinfulness at times. And so when we see someone like Peter, an individual who denied his Lord three times and we see that Christ for gave him and restored him, that that in turn can strengthen our faith that if Christ for gave a sinner such as Peter, who denied him, or David with regard to Bathsheba or even Saul prior to becoming the apostle Paul. So also will he deal with us in terms of for giving us and restoring us to his favor and grace. Third, we can then imitate the saints. And here I stress first and foremost imitate the faith. So with regard to the example of Abraham Who clung to the promise despite the fact that he and Sara were beyond childbearing years, that provides an example and encouragement for you and I to also cling to the promises where in God has revealed himself. These three principles or approaches to honoring the saints I think can provide us with a very evangelical or Gospel centered way of dealing with Bible stories that they don't have to be dealt with an immoralistic manner is I Fear often is the case. It's one of the reasons why we in the Lutheran church do honor various saints with our *vinergy and/or worship services be it St. Paul or saint Peter or Titus or Mary Magdalene. It provides us an opportunity to go into practice these three principles that Melanchthon highlights. So you'll notice within our hymnal in addition to major feasts or festivals we also acknowledge or observe or commemorate minor festivals dealing with God's saints within the Bible or outside the Bible, whether it be Saint Augustine or Martin Luther. Melanchthon proceeds to discuss the entire question of invocation dealt with how we honor the saints now raises the question do we therefore call upon them. Are they mediators between God and us? Well, he begins first by laying out a definition of a meditator. And notes that there are two types of mediators. On the one hand there's a mediator of propitiation and on the other hand a meditator of intercession. A meditator of propitiation is one who has been authorized by God to either remove our sins as in the case of expatiating our sins or to remove the wrath of God. And there we have the concept of propitiator again or an oratorian sacrifice. Well, within -- in this regard, Melanchthon then mixed a very strong case there has only been one who has been appointed to be the meditator between God and man and that is the man Jesus Christ. He alone has been appointed to be the sack official lamb for the sins of the entire world and to defect the wrath of God off of us and upon himself. The second kind of meditator, however, is a meditator of intercession. This is a kind of meditator who can pray on behalf of us. You might say go to God in prayer to pray for fellow christians. And someone whom we might approach in terms of asking them to prayer for us. Well, clearly Melanchthon is going to have to take up the topic of what about asking those who are in heaven to prayer for us. In other words, first of all, he dealt with the issue of meditator/propitiator or meditator/propitiation where he says Christ alone has been designated to be our propitiator therefore, Mary is not and none of the saints are mediators of propitiation. But the question now arises: Can they be mediators of intercession? Interestingly, by the way, in the Lutheran/Catholic dialogues of the last 20 years, one of the approaches or understandings that has emerged is that the Catholic's involved in those dialogues have argued increasingly that calling upon the saints is not to call upon them as mediators of propitiation but mediator of intercession. This is a very intriguing argument. In other words, the contention is just as you and I go to one another here on earth and ask someone to pray for us, be it a pastor, be it a parent, be it a spouse, so also christians can approach saints in heaven and ask them to pray for them, be it their departed father, grandparent, or someone else. The point being is in this way the entire church is praying, the church militant on earth as well as the church triumphant in heaven. Kind of an intriguing argument. The flaw I think in the argument that Melanchthon would highlight is well, it's possible -- he's even willing to concede that even the angels may pray for us. However, that we are not there by to conclude that we should ask them to do so. In other words, there's no command in scripture exhort ing to us to go to either a departed saint, one who was in heaven or an angel and ask them to pray for us before God. We have those kinds of commands with respect to christians and saints within the church militant here on earth. We do have the command to prayer for one another. And Paul will express his prayers for those whom he writes. And to whom he writes. So I think that's how Melanchthon would probably deal with it is say well, it's possible we don't have any clear data on it. And we certainly have no command. But we do have the command to pray for one another. But I think this raises a contemporary question for us regarding prayer and regarding the issue or the question of asking others to prayer for us. And I'm going to frame it this way: Why? Why do we ask others to pray for us? Afterall, it is not the prayer of a single sinner that avails much before God, but as long as one is praying in faith, does God not hear that prayer and answer? So I'm kind of wondering then why it is we ask others to prayer for us? Why is it we have prayer chains and things along those lines? Perhaps deep down, there may be unintentionally a mistaken notion that for lack of a better word there is power in numbers. I can illustrate this with an example from my own wife's experience approximately eight, nine years ago. Her boss at work came to her and said "Betty, God has just got to answer our prayer." Now, she had recently had a son who was severely injured in a go cart accident. And she said to my wife God has got to answer my prayer we've got the Baptists in north county praying and the Catholics in south county praying and the Lutherans in west county praying. It almost sounded as if, you know, the more numbers one has, the more one can lobby God and therefore, the more inclined God is to answer. Or take example a prayer chain. Perhaps it could give the unintended impression that if we prayer 24 hours a day around the clock, 24/7, somehow we're going to wear him down until he answers. Now, to be sure the Bible does talk about being persistent in prayer in large power strengthening our faith that we do cling to God's promise that he will hear and answer. I'm not saying that these practices are necessarily bad. But I am perhaps suggesting that we can unintentionally at times fall into a certain way of thinking that is more leaning towards having to cajole God or having to compel God or having to wear him down rather than relying upon the promise and simply pray in faith. That still doesn't answer the question why then do we pray for one another? Why do we ask others to pray for us? Well, again, it cannot be either because of these power in numbers or that by somehow asking the pastor to pray he's closer to God and God is more likely to answer. I suppose a large part of the answer simply lies in the point that Paul often raises that this is one of the ways by which we bear one another's burdens. In other words, as in care for one another, as we bear each other's burdens, how better to do that Reformers to take those cares, anxieties, and burdens to God in prayer. So Article 21 while it deals with the invocation of saints, it's something that I don't think is a major controversy within our church body today and at times may seem to be an antiquated issue of 500 years ago. And nevertheless it still seems to raise some important questions and provides some important principles to provide us in how we think in our own prayers by individually and corporately as a church. *** This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. ***