ROUGHLY EDITED COPY CONFESSIONS 1 CON1-Q021 JANUARY 2005 CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY: CAPTION FIRST, INC. P.O. BOX 1924 LOMBARD, IL 60148 * * * * * This text is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communications Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. * * * * >> NICK: Last Trinity Sunday, we recited the Athanasian Creed in our worship service. I had forgotten how really long the creed is. The Athanasian Creed is much longer than all the other creeds. Is there a way to understand its structure and message? >> DR. KLAUS DETLEV SHULTZ: Well, Nick, you touched there on the sad fate that has befallen the Athanasian Creed. In fact, Trinity Sunday is perhaps the only Sunday in the whole church year that confesses the Athanasian Creed. Other than that, it probably is hardly ever used. But as we look at it, we see that it is incredibly important in the sense that it encapsulates, or covers, an entire theological road that has been taken in the fourth century and the fifth century and even later than that. So as we look at the Athanasian Creed and trying to make some sense out of it, we could begin by saying this: That it starts with the theses saying we have to believe in the triune God in order to be saved, and that is the catholic faith. That goes from Thesis 1 to 26. And then after 26, it begins, then, with statements made on Jesus Christ. Those go from 27 to Thesis 40. These are the two most probably broad descriptions one can make of the creed. It has 40 theses. It goes from the Trinity to the person of Jesus Christ. As we look at it carefully and in greater detail, we see therein that it has assumed a number of descriptions about God, who God is. And it speaks of Him in terms of a number of qualities that He has, properties, being unlimited, being not created, being eternal and almighty. And whenever it says something of one person, it says it also of the other. So there is a lot of repetition in the creed. It says that God the Father is eternal. God the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal. And then, finally, it begins by saying that one should, however, not think, if one is inclined to do that, that one is dealing here with three Gods. What it tries to say here is that though we have three persons, and all of them have qualities of eternity of being uncreated of being almighty, we should see them all together as one God, as one substance. And if you notice, with that word substance, it reflects something that we have already seen from the Nicene Creed. So it picks something up from that context. And when we go, then, to the person of Jesus Christ, we see that it reflects there the theology of the fifth century, those statements that were made at the Council of Ephesus in 431, and then in 451 of Chalcedon. And there it relates specifically to the two natures of Jesus Christ in this one person. It says they should not be mixed, but they should also not be kept separate. Thereby telling us that what was said at the time of Chalcedon that we should not confuse the two natures against the Nestorians and against those of Alexandria, the *Eutichians, telling them that we should always understand the two natures being united in one person, not separated, but neither should they be mixed. Those are the theses about Jesus Christ. And it affirms these theses by saying that this, too, belongs to the catholic faith. That we must believe in it in order to be saved. Some of us might object to the statement that we must believe in these statements in order to be saved. Do we have to believe it really? I think once we have read the Athanasian Creed, it would be hard to disagree with it. I think it says something that the church will always have to affirm, that this is scriptural. That this is what is said about Jesus Christ. Anyone who would read the Athanasian Creed and then say after that, it does not agree with my faith, surely will exclude himself from the catholic faith as it is affirmed in the creed. The Athanasian Creed, in terms of confessing Jesus Christ, does speak also of Him being of one substance with the Father, again reflecting therein the statement that Jesus is *homo ouzious with the Father. And then it goes on to speak also that Jesus Christ is of the same substance of man, affirming his true humanity. It then goes on to say that Jesus Christ also has a human soul and human flesh. That reflects a question that was raised in the church; namely, does Jesus Christ also have, in addition to being a true human being and of being truly God, also have a human soul. That, in this creed, is reflected as well by affirming also that he has also a human soul. And then, finally, the creed also traces the earthly ministry of Christ in the words of the Apostles' Creed almost. We see therein that it follows also that what is affirmed in the Apostles' Creed. In summary then, we can say the Athanasian Creed reflects both the theology of the Apostles' Creed and also the Nicene Creed. It has taken a much longer road to do that, 40 theses altogether. However, we do want to say that it does so deliberately and intentionally, and we, ourselves, should show gratitude for it having done so they're because therein in a succinct way, almost in a nutshell, gives us all that theology that has been embracing a struggle for almost since scripture to the sixth century.