"PASTORAL THEOLOGY & PRACTICE" PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL & DR. RICHARD WARNECK CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY: CAPTION FIRST, INC. P.O. BOX 1924 Lombard, IL 60148 1-800-825-7234 * * * * * This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in Order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings * * * * >> ERIC: Thank you for that answer. I realize that I probably should have asked a more basic question first. How should a pastor minister to persons who identify themselves as either homosexual or lesbian? In several of our courses, the concept of proper application of law and Gospel when ministering has been discussed. Is this a time for law or for Gospel? How can we help these individuals? >> DR. RICHARD WARNECK: Eric, your followup question is right on. We spoke a moment ago in general terms about how a pastor ministers to persons of the orientation of homosexual or lesbian, but you're raising the more precise question: Do we minister in terms of the law or in terms of the Gospel? Let's say, once again, that the pastor may not be able to comprehend all of the complexities in this matter of sexual orientation. Whether or not a pastor counsels a homosexual person toward a change in his sexual orientation with the help of therapies, one kind or another, will be a matter for the pastor to decide and to determine. The pastor's primary concern, however, is how these persons shall live chaste and decent lives in all purity. The pastor counsels these persons to live social but celibate lives sexually. Anything less may place such persons under the severe judgment of God as we have discussed earlier. Sodomy and the pursuit of unnatural lust is an abomination to the Lord. So our concern is to help these persons lead a life that is chaste and pure and to do the right thing. If and when persons in our care have fallen into sexual sin, whether they be heterosexual or homosexual, that confession of sin in sincere repentance is of utmost importance. And even more important is when the pastor has opportunity, he speaks the Gospel to that repentance. We call attention to the predominance of the Gospel when the Bible addresses such sins. We may have given the impression in our previous discussion that God's response to sins of this nature is all judgment. We want to emphasize that God also speaks the Gospel to the penitent. And that's very clear. Already, there in Leviticus, in Leviticus 18, verses 2 to 5, the Lord asks Moses to speak to the people and to command them not to do as unbelievers in Egypt did from the place from which they came, nor as the pagans in the land of Canaan do, the place to which the Israelites are going. They should keep Yahweh's ordinances and statutes and walk in them. "I am the Lord your God." but these exhortations, Eric, should be viewed if the larger light and scope of the Gospel of God's great love shown to Israel. In Deuteronomy Chapter 7, versus 6 to 11, a beautiful passage, the Lord is speaking through Moses, and he reminds the people that�they did not become His people, God's people, on their own; rather, He loved them, He chose them, and He promised to bless them. This passage in Deuteronomy 7 is one of the most beautiful Gospel passages in the Old Testament. And it's a compliment to those severe exhortations and even judgments spoken from the vantage of the law. So we want to call attention to the speaking of the Gospel in this instance already back when the Lord revealed His word to his people and His will through Moses. In New Testament, St. Paul, also very severe in judgment upon the unrighteous, and he said it very clearly, unmistakably, in I Corinthians 6, people who pursue these heinous modes of behavior will not inherit the kingdom of God. The immoral, the adulterers, the idolaters, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers, these will not inherit the kingdom. And then the apostle ex claims, "and such were some of you." he has reference to the fact that the Corinthians, prior to their conversion, were part of that same culture, if you will. Yet in the same breath, and this is so noteworthy, in the same breath, the apostle hurries to add, "but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God." that's 1 Corinthians 6, verse 11. That follows very close upon the heels of verse 9. How beautiful the Gospel simply towers over all. And in Galatians 5, following the apostle's severe words when he marks the ugliness of the fruits of the flesh and he warns his readers that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God, he quickly turns to the Gospel. Here is how he puts it. "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." So speaking the Gospel to persons who are troubled over sexual sins, this is the high calling of the Lutheran pastoral ministry. And I want to emphasize, Eric, that this is a marvelous gift we have in the Lutheran church and in the Lutheran ministry, that pastors are oriented in such a way in their ministry to speak the Gospel of Christ that delivers from the bondage of sin and the guilt of sin and sets people again on the right path. And I want to say that this particular mark of our Lutheran pastoral ministry is certainly in contrast to other pastoral approaches of which we are aware within Christiandom which tend to encounter sin only with more laws and more commandments and more rules. The Lutheran pastor ministers with the Gospel to persons who need that love of God and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ.