ROUGHLY EDITED COPY "PASTORAL THEOLOGY & PRACTICE" PROF. HAROLD SENKBEIL & DR. RICHARD WARNECK CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY: CAPTION FIRST, INC. P.O. BOX 1924 Lombard, IL 60148 1-800-825-7234 * * * * * This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in Order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings * * * * >> ERIC: I have a question about a topic that has been in the news quite prominently over the last few years and one which is likely to remain in the spotlight for sometime to come. In view of how the Bible speaks about marriage, can the church properly consider so-called "same sex" marriages? >> Eric, you are correct. The Dr.�Richard war neck. The issue you raise is very prominent in the news. A year ago, February 2004, Trinity United Methodist church in Kansas City decided to stop performing traditional marriage ceremonies because a church rule prohibits such services for gays and lesbians. Now, clearly this particular congregation in the Methodist denomination was putting to the test the notion of marriage as we have always comprehended it, a relationship between a man and a woman. And when they elected to shut down on heterosexual marriage in somewhat protest that their church rules forbid the same sex marriage, this tells us something. It tells us how intense these persons are and how strong this movement is. The question before us, then: Is marriage heterosexual? The union of a man and a woman? Well, one would think so according to Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2 and then affirmed by our Lord�in Matthew Chapter 19, verse 4 to 5. Our Lord speaks of no other marital relationship than the one made by the Lord God at the beginning when he created them male and female and then ordered that a man would leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and these two, the man and the woman, in this commitment, cleaving together as one flesh, are the married ones. So the two are no longer two but one in this profound relationship which God arranged according to His design and His creation. The fact that there is not even a hint of recognition of any close and intimate life except this one between a man and a woman and the fact that the church and all of society in the western world for the past two millennia have regarded the uniqueness of this one flesh union of one man and one woman, all of this speaks, we submit, against the notion of homosexual unions. We should comprehend very clearly that the Scriptures are very negative on any suggestion that persons of the same sex might be married and live in the intimate relations which God intended for the married. The sin of Sodomy is everywhere condemned in the Scriptures. Let's be very, very pointed and emphatic about that. Never is this sin condoned. Never is it tolerated among the people of God. So it is not surprising how open and pointed are the words from Leviticus which address the male population saying, "you shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." Leviticus 18, verse 22. And isn't it interesting that this severe prohibition is couched within severe censor of other perversions of the Canaanites. In the previous verse, verse 21, the Lord prohibits throwing and sacrificing children to the fire of Molech, a pagan Canaanite deity. The verse following, verse 23, is God's severe judgment upon those who engage in bestiality. Israel shall not defile themselves by any of these things but shall keep Yahweh's statutes and ordinances, less the land vomit them out when they defile it, Leviticus 18:24-28. And we might compare Chapter 20, verse 22. So, instead of suggesting rights for those who wish to engage in an intimate, same sex relationship, meaning here Sodomy, we learn that those who do such things were to be cut off from among the people, Leviticus 18:29. Repeated over again is the refrain which underscores the seriousness of these issues. Yahweh states, "I am the Lord your God." And the punishment was severe and final for those who repudiated Yahweh and insisted on freely violating his statutes and ordinances in regard to these very issues, sacrificing children to Molech, bestiality and Sodomy. And regarding the latter, Yahweh states, "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall be put to death. Their blood is upon them." Leviticus 20, verse 13. Eric, the ancient world was host to every perversion known to the human race. And St. Paul notes how God also was witness to these things, things going on in his time, in the first Century, to a point that the Lord gave practitioners of these perversions over to their sin. Women exchanging natural relations for the unnatural. And the men likewise giving up natural relationships with women, consumed in passion for one another and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error, Romans 1:26-27. Furthermore, in 1 Corinthians Chapter 6 Versus 9, the apostle is abundantly clear. He groups homosexuals and lesbians among those who, for reason of many heinous sins, will not inherit the kingdom of God. It's interesting. The English translation, at least the Revised Standard Version, has only one word "homosexual", translating two Greek terms "malakos," meaning persons soft, voluptuous effeminate. Note the Latin equivalent terms. Sinedos (phonetic), one who practices unnatural lust, a Sodomite, and pathicos, one who submits to unnatural lust, pathic. And the second Greek term in the Corinthian text is arsenokoitas, meaning a pederast, a male homosexual, a Sodomite. I say it's interesting that the Greek text uses these two words to convey a sinful perversion and those who pursue these behaviors for get the kingdom of God. That's how the apostle puts it and that's how serious the matter is. Now, certainly we are aware that there are many, numerous arguments put forth today that attempt to destroy the meaning of the verses from Leviticus, the verses from Romans chapter 1 and the verse from I Corinthians chapter 6 which we have discussed briefly here today. One argument advanced is the argument from silence, the notion that Jesus no where condemns homosexual behavior. I have heard a radio journalist advance this argument on our KMOX radio broadcast in St. Louis. Does this argument hold water, so to speak? Is it a viable argument? Hardly. Consider when our Lord refers to sexual life whenever he speaks to this issue, it is always the heterosexual relationship which he has in mind. Also, we have cited here the texts themselves. Many of these arguments go far afield into the area of hermeneutics and interpretation. But the texts themselves are very clear. And that's where we need to stay. Arguments that would support same sex unions from the Scriptures can succeed only by some radical hermeneutical intervention. And I believe when we look at those arguments, we will see the fallacy in them. And when we return to the clear meaning of the text and the clear statements of the texts, we are pretty well on solid ground in the position that we have taken here today. We should add that pastors are well advised in their discussion of these matters today to be guarded about statements they make regarding homosexuality and lesbianism. There are states' rights commissions and other groups, flag, for instance, parents and friends for lesbians and gaze, as well as the ACLU, the American civil liberties union who are just eager to pounce on pastors and congregations for their teaching of what the Bible says. For they want to indict that teaching as hate speech today. So we need to be cautious. And we need to be aware of the strong opposition to what the Bible teaches on this subject. Reactions, however radical and forceful to a point of bullying the church will never change the divine word of the living God judging Sodomy and unnatural relations among persons of the same sex to be an abomination. In answer to your question, Eric, I just felt it important to be very lucid and very forthright on the basis of what the Scriptures actually teach and actually say from the texts themselves. Now, Eric, it is possible�-- and it's very probable�-- that you and your colleagues in the pastoral ministry will have, in your congregations, persons who are homosexuals and lesbians. Certainly it is not for us as pastors to be judgmental. Pastors will refrain from making all kinds of explorations into the complexities of sexual orientation and sexual life. We refrain from all of that. However, a pastor will care for these persons as faithfully as he cares for others. As faithfully as he ministers to heterosexual persons. Pastors will counsel these persons to cultivate social relations and to avoid intimate�-- and may I say, I'll just spell it out, as it's spelled out in other pieces of our literature�-- avoid the genitally sexual relationships with members of the same sex. Avoid that behavior and stay away from it and desist from it. And pastors will caution their Christians in the congregation of this orientation along those lines just as surely as they caution heterosexual persons to flee and avoid fornication and adultery and all manner of uncleanness. So as pastors, we certainly want to extend our pastoral care and our counsel to persons of homosexual or lesbian orientation just as surely as others in the congregation and be as helpful and supporting of their Christian life and to help them do the right thing in their day-to-day life. * * * * * This is being provided in a rough-draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in Order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings * * * *