No. 51. >> How should we answer folks who say: You mean sinners and hypocrites live in the church, also? Shouldn't we identify the sinners in church and throw them out, excommunicate them? >>DR. KLAUS DETLEV SCHULZ: Josh, in the texts of the Bible, such as the parable of the weeds, and also Matthew 18, you will remember, perhaps, that I've indicated that the church does have sinners in its midst. The question is only: How do we go about addressing the fact that there are sinners in the midst? And you and I and all other Christians, also, are sinners and saints at the same time. So in other words, if we want to purge the church from all sin and from its sinners, we probably will have to work very hard. And sooner or later nobody in the church will even be present. So in other words, we cannot go and address this issue of church discipline in such a rigorous way that we thereby believe that those who remain behind will be completely holy. The point here is that church discipline is something that is to be applied with great -- as a form of spiritual care over somebody who is not able to return to the Gospel because of a hardened heart and who shows unrepentance. How is one to deal with such people? Church discipline is, therefore, an attempt to bring somebody back to the flock who is errant and is adamant in sin. That is something different to what we define the church as sinners in a more general way. Those who are in passing, those who live every day, commit a sin. But are still aware of their Christian faith. And are, therefore, returning to the Lord and asking forgiveness for what they have just done.