No. 46. >> Do we then believe the Roman Catholic Church's claim, that there is no salvation outside the church? >>DR. KLAUS DETLEV SCHULZ: Nick, I would answer that question with a yes and no. First I need to go back to the history of the statement that you've just made and refer you maybe to the Bull that was passed in the year 1302 by Pope Boniface VIII. He made the famous statement and passed it, as I've said, as the Bull Unam Sanctam and said thereby that outside the church there is no salvation. He picks, thereby, with that statement a long tradition -- picks up a long tradition that goes back already to the father, church father, called Cyprian of 258. That's the year when he died. And who made this statement, also: Nobody can have God as Father who does not have the church as Mother. I think that needs clarification. The statement Cyprian made here was I think a sincere one. Because he believes strongly that Christians cannot meander away from the church to any other alternative religious proposals and find salvation there. So he wanted to point them to the church and saying that therein is salvation to be found. However, as the church grew and as it progressed through the decades and the centuries right up to 302, you will notice that the hierarchy of the church became evermore important. The Roman pontiff status was increased, embellished. And so we as Lutheran Christians look at that with skepticism and try to dismiss those arguments on the basis that Jesus Christ himself is the only head of all true believers. There's nobody who can come in between and pass certain laws and statements that are considered infallible but cannot be found in Scripture. So insofar as a no to this statement, I would say that we cannot share the same position as is proposed by the Roman Catholic Church, who in a recent statement also called ***domino saseus, a papal in ***Siclica of a few years ago, tried to reaffirm the status of the Roman Catholic Church within all other religious denominations and also with other religions in this world. Namely, claiming to have a central place around which all others are to be found. In terms of saying yes to it -- and I've alluded to that already a couple of times to this statement -- I would say that we do see the necessity as Cyprian would say that Christians need to find themselves in the church. And that they need to worship there and no other place in order to gain and find salvation.