No. 8. >> This is such an interesting and timely topic. And I think I'm tracking with your ideas. So let me ask this: If the left hand matters to God and the restoration of the created realm is important, isn't environmental activism an appropriate emphasis for the church? I ask this because here in the western states the subject is always near the top of any agenda. Oh, and remembering what you just said to Nick, would it be wrong to preach about care of the earth or the value of soup kitchens. I don't mean to the exclusion of Christ. I know that would be a mistake. >>DR. JOEL D. BIERMANN: Good, good thinking. You're right on course here, Josh, with this. And I know how much this is an important agenda to people living in the west, in Wyoming, the environment and caring for it. I would say the quick answer is yes, absolutely we should be concerned about the environment as Christians. But in perspective. So I don't think we need to all join the green party or become tree huggers necessarily. But we do need to recognize that the created realm is God's created realm. It's good. God is working there. It's his creation. He put it together in beautiful marvelous ways. Now, it is fallen. That's true. And that's why Genesis 3 and the doctrine of -- the teaching of the fall is so important. Because it helps us to realize that this is God's good creation. But it's in a broken state. It's not working the way it should. But it's not evil. There's nothing inherently evil about the created realm. It's God's good created realm. And a let's look back to what Genesis 1 and 2 give us. That God created man. And put man in the garden with one task. To have dominion over the creation. In other words, take care of it. Look after it. Man is meant to have dominion over the creation. He's there to be the caretaker of the creation. That responsibility still continues. And so Christians should be very concerned about preserving God's creation. And taking care of it. Looking after it. This is a very important aspect of what we do. But our way of doing it is I think very different in how maybe like an evolutionist might do it or your typical environmentalist might go about it. Because they have this idea of kind of Mother Nature and the world being holy and God being in the tree or in the rock. And they get a lot of pantheistic sort of eastern religion ideas going really strong here. Those are dead wrong. And we want to be careful to not get confused and start doing this kind of stuff. And even sort of the American -- Native American sort of stuff of spirit -- the great spirit so far stuff. Even that can get really confusing and messed up. We have a very clear-cut way of looking at this. God created the world. It's his world. God put together things the way they are to be put together. He created the animals to inhabit the creation. These things matter to God. They are part of his plan. And so as Christians who have dominion over the creation, as people who have responsibility to care for it, we do want to take care of it. So Christians should not just be saying: Who cares about the environment? It's all going to hell anyway. No. That's not right. But at the same time we don't say: Oh, this is God somehow in the world. And we need to love the world like we're loving God. No. Those extremes are both wrong. Instead we should be saying: God has given me this gift of the world. I need to care for this gift. I need to preserve it and protect it and enhance it any way I can. So should we be working for the preservation of species? Yeah, sure. Do we want to make sure that we don't have corporations polluting indiscriminately? Absolutely. But does that mean then we need to say: Oh, we have to hurt people in the process? No. People are not just one more animal or just one more inhabitant of this creation. They are the highest creation. They are the reasons God created. God created for the sake of people. And so we have to be careful that we don't let our environmental policies push so hard that we start to hurt people or think that animals are as important as people. They are not; they are not. They are part of the creation and we are there to be caring for them. But they are not somehow equal to us where we are all just sharing the planet, as you'll hear that kind of dialogue said. That's not what we're endorsing here. We're endorsing people being good caretakers, conscious of what's going on in the world. Not abusing the world. Not indiscriminately destroying what God has created. But watching over God's good creation because it is his good creation. And it's a good gift he's given to us. So this is appropriate. Now, can you preach this? Yeah; yeah. I think sure you can. You can talk about how important it is for us to meet the neighbor's need. Thereby maybe doing a soup kitchen or a food bank. You can talk about how important it is to take care of the creation. Therefore, reminding people of their responsibility to use their gifts well. So not abuse the creation. To not pollute or destroy things. Yeah, that has a place. Even in the pulpit. Where does it fit? It's the law. Quite simply it's the law. You're there reminding people of what God has told them they should be doing. Reminding them of their responsibilities. An when you preach the law, it does the things the law always does. It curbs bad behavior. It convicts of sin. And it helps us to know what God's will is for our lives. Curb, mirror, guide. It always does those things. So the law can take on that nuance. I think one of the mistakes we make as Lutherans is somehow we think law means telling people how bad they are and making them feel bad. And it does that. But see, the law has so many different manifestations. You've got the law within a marriage. You've got the law within families. You've got the law in my responsibilities to the left hand realm. You've got the law in your responsibilities to the rest of creation. All of those are aspects of the law. And some texts lend themselves to this very nicely. In your context there in Wyoming, yeah, I think this is right there in front of people. You can use this very often. Don't be callous about the creation. And maybe you have people in your congregation who are kind of reacting against some of the environmentalists and some of the mischief they create for their lives as ranchers or whatever else. So you might want to tell them that they need to be careful they don't get carried away in reacting against them and becoming sort of anti-environmentalists. That's wrong, too. So yeah, do it in the pulpit. Not at the expense of the Gospel. But in service of the Gospel. And in making a law that's actually very appropriate, very applicable to your lives there in that parish. It reminds me, Joshua, when I was in Madagascar once doing a short mission trip there, I had some really interesting conversations with the people there. You know Madagascar is the home of the lemur, only place in the world where it is. And the Malagasy people are very accustomed to lots of people coming to Madagascar to study the lemurs. A lot of interest. And there's a lot of money being plowed into Madagascar for the sake of the environment. Trying to preserve the space for these lemurs. And lots of interest in preserving the ecosystems for these lemurs and making life good for the lemur. And it's gotten to the point where you've got lots of money coming into the country all for the sake of the lemur. It even prompted one political cartoon they told me about where you have these lemurs who are being studied and cared for and fed and all this money being poured on the lemurs. And all these Europeans standing around and studying these lemurs and interested. And meanwhile, on the other side of the political cartoon frame there's a group of impoverished people standing here who are facing death with their hands open. And they are asking the question: You know, what about us? So we have to be careful that we don't get so wrapped up in trying to advance environmental causes that we forget God's No. 1 priority, which is people. Their left hand and their right hand needs. And I think it just helps us to kind of keep their balance there.